Anne (Hore) Came's Hore Relatives in her 1678/9 Will
Research note by Wesley Johnston - Begun 27 Jun 2015, last updated 7 Jul 2015
Thanks to Ronald Keam of New Zealand for transcribing the will and to Helen Keam Sage of Australia for sending me Ron's transcription.
Note that in my tree, I use only new style (Gregorian) dates in the date field, since they are used in calculations. For old style (Julian) dates from 1 Jan to 24 Mar, I note the dates with a slash in the event notes field: e.g. 3 Mar 1654/5 will be recorded in the date field as 3 Mar 1655 and noted in the event field notes as 1654/5.
Contents
Background
Anne (HORE) CAME wrote her will 2 Feb 1678/9 at St Austell, Cornwall. Among her heirs, she left money to the following HORE family members, in this order:
It is unclear why she specified the fathers of three of the people (the two Anne HOREs, John VIVIAN, . They may have been minor children. Or there may have been more than one person of that name in the vicinity, so that she wanted to clarify which one she meant. The latter seems to have been the more likely case for the two Anne HOREs, although that does not rule out the former also being true. But it seems most likely that a child of one of Anne (HORE) CAME's siblings was certainly an adult by the time she wrote her will, since she herself was already a grandmother of about 74 years of age.
There is one other important item in her will. She left twenty shillings each to the poor of St Austell and of Roche (spelled "Roach" in the will). She clearly had a connection with St Austell, since that is where she lived her married life. It seems most likely that she spent her childhood in Roche.
Main Sources Used
The following searches rely on four main online indexes. The abbreviations that I will use are in parentheses after the name.
St Austell HORE and VIVIAN and ?FFODER? baptisms
Since the StA index is for a single parish, and none of the earlise baptisms are in either the CFHS or OPC indexes, I will begin by listing all the HORE and VIVIAN baptisms, in chronological order. I will also try to find matches for the surname that was read uncertainly as FFODER. I will group these by which parish register collection they are in within the organization that FamilySearch has the images grouped on their web site: 1564-1631 and 1632-1695. Clearly some of these are before Anne's birth and some after her death, but I want to make sure that I have everyone of each surname in those registers listed here. There is no guarantee that those named in the will were baptized at St. Austell, but this is how I will begin. I am relying only on the StA indexes at this point and not checking transcriptions against the images of the original records. Dates are given as yyyy-mm-dd. (While the dates are recorded in the index as written, thus in old style, I am using double dating to clairfy the years on dates from 1 Jan to 24 Mar.) Finally, keep in mind that, espeically in the early and mid 1600's there are years when few or no baptisms were recorded.
1564-1631
1632-1695
I have added the will and burial dates of Anne (HORE) CAME so that we can quickly see which children were baptized before then and which after.
While a number of possible matches for FFODER exist (such as BRODDE and BRODE and HOOPER), it is simply too uncertain to know what the name really was.
Clearly the VIVIAN family has deep roots in the parish. But HORE does not appear until 1650. well after Anne HORE's marriage in 1627 to John CAME. So the HORE family clearly originated in a different parish.
So are any of those listed in the will among these baptisms?
VIVIAN
Despite the numerous VIVIAN baptisms, there is no John VIVIAN son of William VIVIAN. If John was still a minor, he would have been born in or after 1661. The counts of baptisms for 1661-1678 are nomral, so that there were probably no omissions of baptisms in the period. So John VIVIAN was most likely baptized in a different parish and not in St. Austell.
HORE
There were only six HORE baptisms recorded at St Austell before Anne's will:
1650-07 - Grase daughter of John HORE
1664-05-01 - John son of William HORE and Julian
1665-12-14 - Hannah daughter of Wm. HORE and Elizabeth
1672-10-05 - Jonathan son of Will. HORE and Temperance
1674-08-29 - William son of William HORE and Temperance
1676-03-06 - David son of William HORE
It is possible that one of the fathers named William HORE may have been her "nephew & kinsman". It is not likely that it was the William baptized in 1674, since the William in the will is shown without a father and was thus most likely an adult. And her nephew would definitely have been an adult by 1678/9.
Similarly the John HORE who was the father in the 1650 baptism may have been the John HORE in the will.
There are no Anne, Stephen nor Lancelot HORE references in the baptisms.
While it is possible that one or more of the HORE family members listed in the will were among these few St. Austell baptisms, it seems more likley that they were in the parish where Anne HORE had lived before marrying John CAME in 1627.
John VIVIAN son of William VIVIAN
Since the John VIVIAN, son of William VIVIAN, was probably not baptized at St. Austell and was born in a period when there were no omissions in the St. Austell baptisms, are there any candidate baptisms in other parishes?
The CFHS database shows only one John VIVIAN son of William born in the 1600's before Ann wrote her will: 2 Mar 1649/50 at St Keverne son of William and Elizabeth. This couple probably were also the parents of Anne VIVIAN, baptized at St Keverne 14 Dec 1657, which is the only other baptism of the child of a William and Elizabeth in the 1600's. The Elizabeth baptized 18 Jan 1653/4, daughter of William VIVIAN, was probably also theirs.
OPC also shows a St Keverne baptism for Richard, son of William and Elizabeth, on 19 Jan 1650/1 and a Jane, 10 Jul 1662, daughter of William and Elizabeth.
St Keverne is not close to St Austell, but both are on the south coast and only about 40 miles apart, so that it is possible that the 1649/50 John VIVIAN son of William is the one who was in Anne (HORE) CAME's will. Was his mother Elizabeth a HORE family relative of Anne, since John is listed in the midst of the HORE relatives in Anne's will? There is no mention of that in the will. And if this was the John in the will, why did Anne not include his siblings as well?
Conclusion for Now
The bottom line is that there is only one candidate for the John VIVIAN in the will from the evidence that has survived. But the evidence is not nearly enough to be conclusive. I will carry this St Keverne family in my database, in case future information comes to light, and I will include John as the potential John of the will. But this is not at all proven.
"Anne HORE daughter of my brother Lancelot HORE"
Anne HORE married John CAME in 1627 and thus was probably born about 1605. So Lancelot HORE would have been born about the same time. In all of the indexes, there is only one candidate: Lancelot son of Stephin HORE, baptized 15 Nov 1601 at Roche. Since Anne left twenty shillings each to the poor of St Austell and of Roche, it seems most likely that Roche was her childhood home, so that this Lancelot was most likley her brother. The image of this record is at https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11833-150262-65 where it is the fifth from the bottom image on the left-hand page (the page numbered 28).
The fact that Anne (HORE) CAME named Anne HORE as the daughter of her brother Lancelot HORE indicates that she was not using the convention of adding the father's name to indicate a minor child, since her namesake neice would certainly have been an adult by 1678/9. So presumably the younger Anne was unmarried at the time the older Anne wrote her will.
So were there any baptisms in the early to mid 1600's of children of Lancelot HORE? The CFHS database has only four pre-1700 baptisms, all at Kenwyn and all after the death of Anne (HORE) CAME. OPC has no baptisms prior to 1700.
Are there any marriage records for Lancelot HORE? The CFHS database has only one prior to Anne (HORE) CAME's death: 2 Jan 1670/1 at Roche - Lancelot HORE and Margery THOMAS. If the 1601 baptism is the correct Lancelot, then this Lancelot bridegroom would have been 69 years old. So it seems more likely that the groom was a younger namesake and not the 1601 Lancelot. OPC has no marriage prior to Anne's death.
So the only reference to a Lancelot HORE born about the same time (1600-1610) as Anne (HORE) CAME is the 16 Nov 1601 baptism at Roche. No marriage record seems to have survived. And no baptismal records of any of his children - especially his daughter Anne HORE who is included in her Aunt's will - seem to have survived. So we have only the will and the baptism. And there is no certainty that the baptism is that of Anne CAME's brother.
HORE entries in Roche Parish Registers
What early 1600's HORE parish register records do exist for Roche? A CFHS search of baptisms for "Ho*re" returns more than 150. Since the CFHS database allows no restriction by date, I went to the copy of the database on FMP and searched there, restricting births to 20 years before or after 1600. The results were:
The search was repeated with Hoa*r* and Ho*ar* with no matches found. A search of OPC with surname Ho and dates 1580-1620 for Roche returned the same five records as above.
A CFHS search for Ho*r* bridegrooms at Roche found these HORE marriages in the period before 1667:
OPC had the same but entered once as HOORE and once as HOORRE.
The same CFHS search but for Roche brides found only one HORE bride:
OPC had the same.
The CFHS burials had no HORE matches prior to 1813 at Roche. OPC had these (search surname "Ho"), with the next one not being until 1681, which was after Anne (HORE) CAME died:
Was the Stephin HOORE buried in 1638 the father of the 1601 Lancelot? And how were John, Stephin and Robert related to each other? These questions cannot be answered with the existing records that I have. So I will look at more of the HORE family in Anne CAME's will.
"Anne HORE daughter of Stephen"
Searching the CFHS baptism database for any "Ho*re" child with father "Ste*" and then for "Hoar" and "Ste*", there are these prior to Anne CAME's death in 1679.
So there was no baptism for an Anne, daughter of Stephen HORE. And except for the 1601 baptism at Roche, the baptisms were all at St Just in Roseland (1600, 1617-1625) or Kenwyn (1666-1678). While not adjacent to each other, Kenwyn is about 20 miles from each of the others. OPC has no additional matches and spells the 1600 son Tomus and the 1601 Lancelot and does not have any of the Kenwyn baptisms.
So we have more questions. Was the 1600 St Just Stephen the same as the 1601 Stephen? And thus are the 1600 John and Thomas brothers of the 1601 Stephen? Since the 1617-1625 Stephen seems to be a new father and not the same as the 1600 or 1601 Stephen, who were his parents? Was he possibly an earlier son of the 1600 St Just Stephen?
Searching the CFHS marriages for a "Ste*" "Ho*r*", there are these Stephen HORE marriages prior to 1679:
OPC has no additional Stephen HORE marriages.
CFHS has no "Ste*" "Ho*r*" burials for Stephen HORE before 1679. OPC has the following:
Was the 1638 burial the father of the 1601 Lancelot? Was the 1646 burial the 1616 husband? Was the 1616 husband also the 1625 husband?
And most important of all, in regard to the will, there is no mention anywhere of a daughter Anne to any of the Stephen HOREs.
Conclusion for Now
I cannot find sufficient confidence as to who this Stephen HORE was and thus who this Anne HORE was. So I am not carrying either of them at all in my database. So these are two loose ends that eventually need to be tied down.
"My nephew and kinsman William HORE" and John HORE
Clearly, William HORE's father was also named HORE, and he was probably the brother of Anne (HORE) CAME. Was he a son of her acknowledged brother Lancelot HORE?
CFHS has these baptisms (Ho*re and Hoa* searches) in the period before Anne's death in 1679:
Since William was her brother's son, only the 1619 birth matches. And the fact that it was at Roche also fits with Anne (HORE) CAME leaving money to the poor of Roche in her will -- and also to the birthplace of Lancelot.
In the section on Lancelot HORE above, the Roche record seem to indicate that William's parents were John and Margaret HORE, who died in 1634 and 1629, respectively, with their probable son John HORE dieing in 1636. So it seems that the John HORE named next after William in Anne's will was not her brother.
Since Anne's nephew William would almost certainly have been an adult by the time of her death, what marriages does CFHS show in Cornwall for any William HORE prior to her death (Ho*re and Hoa* searches)?
Neither of these seem likely to have been the first marriage of the William HOORE born at Roche in 1619.
CFHS has no William HORE burials (Ho*re and Hoa* searches) in the 1600's.
Once again, we are left with more questions than answers. But it does seem that the Roche connection is stronger now that Anne (in her will), Lancelot, and William all seem to originate there.
"My Goddaughter Anne FFODER [?]"
There is just too much uncertainty to identify this Anne. A CFHS baptismal search for "Ann*" "*od*r" turned up many 1600's matches, though none in St Austell or Roche or Kenwyn or St Just. The most common surname was ODGER, and the others were RODGER and BODENER.
How to Carry Them in my Database?
I cannot account for the goddaughter nor for the simply-listed John HORE, although he was almost certainly a close kinsman of Anne (HORE) CAME, to be listed second among her HORE heirs.
But there is a sufficiently reasonable case for the rest that I am going to carry them in my tree as follows -- recognizing full well that this is extremely tenuous and subject to revision if any new evidence is found.
The essential fact for me is that Roche seems to be the place of origin of Anne herself, of her brother Lancelot, and of her nephew William. If these are all correct, which has definitely yet to be proven, then the family in the will and those in the relevant parish registers appears to fit together as follows.
Stephen HORE was the father of:
- John HORE, possibly the one baptized with brother Thomas at St Just in Roseland 14 Dec 1600
- Lancelot HORE, baptized at Roche 15 Nov 1601
- Anne HORE, about 1605, who married John CAME at St Austell 2 Apr 1627 and signed her will 2 Feb 1678/9.
- other children: possibly Thomas, Robert, Stephen
Stephen may have been the Stephin HOORE buried at Roche 26 Mar 1638.
John HORE married Margaret and was the father of the following children, all baptized at Roche:
- Johanna HORE, baptized 1 Jan 1614/5
- William HORE, baptized 30 May 1619 - possibly the nephew and kinsman William in Anne's will
- John HORE, known only from his 11 Dec 1636 burial
Margaret was buried at Roche 5 Jul 1629 and John 23 Dec 1634.
Lancelot HORE's only known child is known through her mention in her aunt's will:
- Anne HORE, who apprently had not married by 1679
I will carry Thomas, Robert and Stephen as sons of Stephen and thus brothers of Anne, since they were all at Roche at the right times. But these are even more uncertain relationships.
As I have repeatedly stated, this family configuration that I am carrying in my database is extremely tenuous and quite possibly wrong. The evidence in its support is meager -- Anne's will and a few parish register entries, none of which can be proven to have been her relatives. If solid documentation of conflicting evidence is found, this configuration will be altered to reflect the new evidence.
Update: 5 Jul 2015
After writing the research note, I began entering the related people into my database, beginning with Anne HORE's father Stephen HORE. This led to finding other trees on Ancestry that had various configurations of the family -- some of which had Stephen as my 10th great-grandfather, which was surprising to me. What I was seeking was to validate the configuration of Anne (HORE) CAME's childhood family. So I focused entirely on her father Stephen HORE at this point, and I discovered that his 1637/8 will confirmed the most important parts of my conclusions.
His will also led me to write a separate research note, "Stephen HORE c1580 Roche and St Just in Roseland: One Man or Two?" in which I conclude that Anne's father Stephen HORE was not the Stephen HOARE baptized 1579/80 at St Just in Roseland. The research also led to the discovery of the death within a few weeks of the two sons of Stephen HOARE who were baptized at St Just. The will also revealed that my assumption that the Roche son John of the Roche Stephen had pre-deceased him, but since he was named in the will it was clear that John HORE survived his father.
So at this point, I am completely separating the St Just and Roche HORE/HOARE families and continuing research only on the Roche families. And I am carrying the Roche families as follows.
Stephen and Katherin HORE Family
Stephen HORE, baptism information unknown, married Katherin (surname unknown) about 1591 (no marriage record found). Stephen signed his will 5 Mar 1637/8 and was buried at Roche 26 Mar 1638. Katherin/Catherine was buried at Roche 26 Oct 1640.
Their children were:
John HORE Family
John HORE was born about 1592-1594 and married Jane and was the father of the following children, all baptized at Roche:
John was still living at the time his father Stephen HORE signed his will 5 Mar 1637/8.
There was also a Margaret, wife of John, buried at Roche 5 Jul 1629. I am very much uncertain that the John HORE who was the husband of Margaret was Stephen HORE's son. There was another John HORE who had a daughter Constance in 1572, so that the John HORE referred to as Margaret's husband in her 5 Jul 1629 burial record may have been this John, so that Margaret may have been the daughter of Constance and not the mother of Stephen HORE's grandchildren.
Robert HORE Family
Robert HORE was born about 1593-1594 and married Jeyes HAMBLYE at Roche 16 Jan 1612/3. She was probably the Jease HAMLY baptized 26 Jun 1592 at St Mabyn, daughter of Roger (Image: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-12896-154805-17).
They had at least these children:
Jeyes (HAMBLYE) HORE was buried at Roche 28 Sep 1640. I have found no burial for Robert; Cornwall OPC's only two candidate burials, both at Roche were 4 Mar 1693/4 ("son of Stephen Hoare") and 17 Jan 1699/1700. Either one would be when he was about 100 years old. The "son of" construct is usually used for burials of children, so that this could be an unrecorded (in the baptisms) son of Stephen and Thomzen HORE, since on 2 Sep 1694 this couple named their next child Robert.
Lancelot HORE Family
I have not yet found definite records of Lancelot's family, other than his baptism and his mother's will.
Lancelot HORE was baptized 15 Nov 1601 and had at least one child:
I realize that there are many trees on Ancestry that show Lancelot's descendants, some of which make him my 9th Great Grandfather. But I cannot confirm or refute those trees, since I have found no evidence yet beyond the above.
As always, these conclusions and configurations are the best that seem to fit with the evidence found thus far. If new evidence conflicts with these conclusions, I will evaluate the new evidence and may alter my conclusions.